It’s basically impossible to do full service work without being severely traumatized. I guess I don’t have to pay for sex since I like men - no matter what age sex gender race what the fuck ever there’s a guy within 10 miles that’ll stick their dick in you - but I guess I don’t see the appeal of sex that my partner isn’t enjoying.
basically it boils down to skin-on-skin human contact versus a toy in this case. Did you never ask a client/partner/audience member? I assume reasons may vary. -I personally think the nature of the (business) relationship to be low-pressure and relatively straight-forward. -That is if we are to contrast it with the dating experience for the average man. Not everybody is relationship material, regardless.
I guess, it’s something that I have extremely complicated feelings about and severe trauma associated with. “Roses” on CL were kinda essential at a point in my life, and I’ve wondered what the other party got out of it.
Idk - like tons of men will “stealth” you. Or they’ll pressure you into not wearing condoms when they know you’re desperate.
Maybe this is trauma dumping I’d like to be retroactively humanized by a “john” a bit. But I’m just not sure how common it is not to be ultimately traumatized at the other end of things. This is not to be a “SWERF” - but what’s the difference between a human and one of these robots?
Edit: maybe a story more aligned to positive feelings towards “Johns” - the older man who saw that my tires were deflated and brought out a pump to fix it. He liked a thing I don’t but isn’t abnormal. Tolerable but not “enjoyable.”
The others are hard to balance it out against. Perhaps a consequence of not having a “Nordic model” or legalization. But also the kind of thing that often make it hard to think rationally. This is why I’m deeply empathic to Dworkin.
I didn’t want to make assumptions on your initial comment as i didn’t know if you were referring to yourself as a full-service sex worker or were using the term under the more general definition applied to strippers, adult film stars, and cam-models, etc. I’ve never hired a hooker, before but visiting Pahrump Nevada, or the red light district of the Netherlands is still on my bucket list.
-That said, having your own personal choice and control over the situation taken away either by guys trying to “stealth” you or to take advantage of a desperate situations at the potential expense of your health is an awful thing to do to someone else. I can only speculate as to what each of your clients wanted that they couldn’t get from a toy. If i’m asked to return to your earlier question of what’s the difference between a human sex worker and a robot, I guess I’d respond by asking what’s the difference between non-sex worker and a robot?
While the work may not be 1:1 to you I can say with regards to strippers there’s still a kind of nonemotional intimacy, and the workers get to express their personalities which made things fun. I don’t know if you got a chance to do any of that or not.
–Are you able to seek counseling for this? Regardless of what I’ve said, that’s some pretty heavy trauma you seem to be trying to make sense of. It could be beneficial to work through it with someone that has more formal training and a deeper knowledge for learning how to cope with these kind of things.
I later found a lot of enjoyment in entering gay “cruising” culture as passing man. It’s that same impersonal, focused on just the pleasure and not the meaning - but without the power dynamic and pretense. I say, this is what I want, he agrees, and then a fun time is had by all.
I think the difference between say, sex as work and making food as work - I don’t really need to care or like the person who makes my food. There’s not an incentive for them to participate in something that can be physically painful or uncomfortable and then even pretend to be enjoying it through that pain. A lot of workplaces do force you to pretend in similar ways - don’t Chikfila employees have to say “my pleasure” or something - but pretending while dissociating in the act does fuck with your head in unique ways I think.
Working in Nevada or the Netherlands might be different. I guess when legalized, maybe you can say “slow down” or press a button for help when they take off the condom. I’ve only lived my life of course.
I do have some professional help, but don’t live in an area where the mental health needs of transexual former hookers are particularly accommodated for.
I know from my netherlands visits (from locals, personally i’m not into sex workers) that the bouncers in the Amsterdam redlight district don’t fuck around when one of the girls have any issue with a client, so they tend to behave themselves.
I think you hit the nail on the head about the power-dynamic and pretense. Regardless, I hope you at least keep talking about it to people who would try not to judge. I think sitting and dwelling on that kind of trauma, or even ignoring it can cause all sorts of problems.
All sex is transactional, all women are whores and all men are johns, it’s just we have this weird cultural thing where it’s a crime to say “Look can I just Venmo you?” so we have to do things like pay for sex with flowers and chocolates and restaurant meals and jewelry and alimony.
“I faked all my orgasms” is up there with “your dick is small” on the list of “things women always say to men they’re angry at” so at some point his ability to care if its true or not burns out.
Are you sure it’s not just the women you’re having sex with are faking their orgasms?
Like, penetrative sex does not lead to orgasm for the majority of people with vaginas. You have to stimulate the clitoris. If you aren’t doing that - they probably are faking to get you to be done with it.
I’ve never met women concerned about dick size - being a “size queen” seems to be more of a thing for gay men. I don’t think there’s a lot of variation in feeling in a vagina for anywhere in the 4-7 inches range.
The attitude that all women are whores and that all sex is transactional seems sad to me. I had men say that to me when I was in the trade, and that was the kind of thing that contributed to it being hellish and unpleasant. I like the idea that sex is something people do because it’s fun and makes them feel good, not that it’s some sort of asymmetrical and hostile game.
I mean, sure. It’s easy to accuse me of being uniquely bad at sex, right? “Are you sure it’s not a YOU problem?”
Well according to the women I’ve slept with I’m simultaneously great and terrible in bed depending on if she was breaking up with me at the time the topic came to discussion. She’s either faking it in bed and the truth only comes out months later, or she’s having a good time in bed and trying to hurt my feelings while she’s angry at me. Which is why I brought up dick size. I don’t care if women care about dick size. I have a normal average medium-size dick and I’ve never been told that by a woman, it’s either huge or tiny depending on her desire to boost or bruise my ego. I’ve had the same woman say both.
I’ve asked every woman I’ve slept with some variation of Do you like that? What do you want to do? What’s your favorite? I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a useful answer out of that line of questioning. The most common response is an indignant “I don’t know!!!” like it’s an inappropriate question to ask at this moment. Or an “uh…yeah” or the surprisingly common continue to rhythmically moan as if no question was asked
Faking orgasms to get sex over with faster and then agreeing to have sex again with the same person is not the behavior of someone who wants to cum during sex. It’s such a dumbass way to go about achieving that goal that it’s just easier to believe the goal is something else.
She’s either got the notion in her head that there exists a man who “just knows” what she wants and she’ll never have to verbalize her wants or needs because he “just does” what she wants. Maybe she’s seen an old couple whose routines are in perfect sync and they fall apart without each other, and romcom movies have her convinced he just exists somewhere fully formed and all you’ve got to do is bend over to pick up dropped papers in front of the right business executive to get it, not spend 40 years of marriage living together, communicating, arguing, winning, losing, compromising, choosing battles and, pause for gasp, sometimes doing things for him too. So she just tries out a man, when he isn’t precisely what she has in mind she ghosts him and moves on to the next one.
Or, she’s willing to get on her back if if means a free meal at local fancy restaurant she can post to Instagram and maybe also even eat.
One thing i agree on with you is that at most of the women i had sex with were pretty bad at verbalizing what they want in bed, regardless of when they are asked about it, and that’s coming from an european where sex stuff is a lot less taboo to talk about than in the states. This is one thing that gets better with age, tho - older women seem to be much more vocal about their needs, so i would say experience is the key factor here. given how sexually repressive the US are especially towards women, it’s something that only social reform can fix, and currently the US are making steps backwards instead of forwards in that regard.
Body shaming to hurt someone during a breakup is not ok and a character flaw; breakups hurt enough as it is without stuff like that. I’m happy i haven’t experienced that yet; all my relationships so far have ended amicably, even if tears where involved on both sides - it just didn’t work out anymore. There would probably be no issue if i met any of my previous partners again.
I do not agree that all sex is transactional. I know it isn’t for me, i can be perfectly content with giving pleasure without receiving anything in return, and i believe most sex is cooperative, working together towards fullfillment of both parties. That includes a transaction, if you really want to be pedantic about it, but the transaction is pretty low-key.
I’d prefer a real hooker.
Former sex worker - what’s the appeal?
It’s basically impossible to do full service work without being severely traumatized. I guess I don’t have to pay for sex since I like men - no matter what age sex gender race what the fuck ever there’s a guy within 10 miles that’ll stick their dick in you - but I guess I don’t see the appeal of sex that my partner isn’t enjoying.
Of a sex worker or a robot?
basically it boils down to skin-on-skin human contact versus a toy in this case. Did you never ask a client/partner/audience member? I assume reasons may vary. -I personally think the nature of the (business) relationship to be low-pressure and relatively straight-forward. -That is if we are to contrast it with the dating experience for the average man. Not everybody is relationship material, regardless.
I guess, it’s something that I have extremely complicated feelings about and severe trauma associated with. “Roses” on CL were kinda essential at a point in my life, and I’ve wondered what the other party got out of it.
Idk - like tons of men will “stealth” you. Or they’ll pressure you into not wearing condoms when they know you’re desperate.
Maybe this is trauma dumping I’d like to be retroactively humanized by a “john” a bit. But I’m just not sure how common it is not to be ultimately traumatized at the other end of things. This is not to be a “SWERF” - but what’s the difference between a human and one of these robots?
Edit: maybe a story more aligned to positive feelings towards “Johns” - the older man who saw that my tires were deflated and brought out a pump to fix it. He liked a thing I don’t but isn’t abnormal. Tolerable but not “enjoyable.”
The others are hard to balance it out against. Perhaps a consequence of not having a “Nordic model” or legalization. But also the kind of thing that often make it hard to think rationally. This is why I’m deeply empathic to Dworkin.
I didn’t want to make assumptions on your initial comment as i didn’t know if you were referring to yourself as a full-service sex worker or were using the term under the more general definition applied to strippers, adult film stars, and cam-models, etc. I’ve never hired a hooker, before but visiting Pahrump Nevada, or the red light district of the Netherlands is still on my bucket list.
-That said, having your own personal choice and control over the situation taken away either by guys trying to “stealth” you or to take advantage of a desperate situations at the potential expense of your health is an awful thing to do to someone else. I can only speculate as to what each of your clients wanted that they couldn’t get from a toy. If i’m asked to return to your earlier question of what’s the difference between a human sex worker and a robot, I guess I’d respond by asking what’s the difference between non-sex worker and a robot?
While the work may not be 1:1 to you I can say with regards to strippers there’s still a kind of nonemotional intimacy, and the workers get to express their personalities which made things fun. I don’t know if you got a chance to do any of that or not.
–Are you able to seek counseling for this? Regardless of what I’ve said, that’s some pretty heavy trauma you seem to be trying to make sense of. It could be beneficial to work through it with someone that has more formal training and a deeper knowledge for learning how to cope with these kind of things.
I guess, desire needs to be reciprocal for me.
I later found a lot of enjoyment in entering gay “cruising” culture as passing man. It’s that same impersonal, focused on just the pleasure and not the meaning - but without the power dynamic and pretense. I say, this is what I want, he agrees, and then a fun time is had by all.
I think the difference between say, sex as work and making food as work - I don’t really need to care or like the person who makes my food. There’s not an incentive for them to participate in something that can be physically painful or uncomfortable and then even pretend to be enjoying it through that pain. A lot of workplaces do force you to pretend in similar ways - don’t Chikfila employees have to say “my pleasure” or something - but pretending while dissociating in the act does fuck with your head in unique ways I think.
Working in Nevada or the Netherlands might be different. I guess when legalized, maybe you can say “slow down” or press a button for help when they take off the condom. I’ve only lived my life of course.
I do have some professional help, but don’t live in an area where the mental health needs of transexual former hookers are particularly accommodated for.
I know from my netherlands visits (from locals, personally i’m not into sex workers) that the bouncers in the Amsterdam redlight district don’t fuck around when one of the girls have any issue with a client, so they tend to behave themselves.
I think you hit the nail on the head about the power-dynamic and pretense. Regardless, I hope you at least keep talking about it to people who would try not to judge. I think sitting and dwelling on that kind of trauma, or even ignoring it can cause all sorts of problems.
All sex is transactional, all women are whores and all men are johns, it’s just we have this weird cultural thing where it’s a crime to say “Look can I just Venmo you?” so we have to do things like pay for sex with flowers and chocolates and restaurant meals and jewelry and alimony.
“I faked all my orgasms” is up there with “your dick is small” on the list of “things women always say to men they’re angry at” so at some point his ability to care if its true or not burns out.
Are you sure it’s not just the women you’re having sex with are faking their orgasms?
Like, penetrative sex does not lead to orgasm for the majority of people with vaginas. You have to stimulate the clitoris. If you aren’t doing that - they probably are faking to get you to be done with it.
I’ve never met women concerned about dick size - being a “size queen” seems to be more of a thing for gay men. I don’t think there’s a lot of variation in feeling in a vagina for anywhere in the 4-7 inches range.
The attitude that all women are whores and that all sex is transactional seems sad to me. I had men say that to me when I was in the trade, and that was the kind of thing that contributed to it being hellish and unpleasant. I like the idea that sex is something people do because it’s fun and makes them feel good, not that it’s some sort of asymmetrical and hostile game.
I mean, sure. It’s easy to accuse me of being uniquely bad at sex, right? “Are you sure it’s not a YOU problem?”
Well according to the women I’ve slept with I’m simultaneously great and terrible in bed depending on if she was breaking up with me at the time the topic came to discussion. She’s either faking it in bed and the truth only comes out months later, or she’s having a good time in bed and trying to hurt my feelings while she’s angry at me. Which is why I brought up dick size. I don’t care if women care about dick size. I have a normal average medium-size dick and I’ve never been told that by a woman, it’s either huge or tiny depending on her desire to boost or bruise my ego. I’ve had the same woman say both.
I’ve asked every woman I’ve slept with some variation of Do you like that? What do you want to do? What’s your favorite? I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a useful answer out of that line of questioning. The most common response is an indignant “I don’t know!!!” like it’s an inappropriate question to ask at this moment. Or an “uh…yeah” or the surprisingly common continue to rhythmically moan as if no question was asked
Faking orgasms to get sex over with faster and then agreeing to have sex again with the same person is not the behavior of someone who wants to cum during sex. It’s such a dumbass way to go about achieving that goal that it’s just easier to believe the goal is something else.
She’s either got the notion in her head that there exists a man who “just knows” what she wants and she’ll never have to verbalize her wants or needs because he “just does” what she wants. Maybe she’s seen an old couple whose routines are in perfect sync and they fall apart without each other, and romcom movies have her convinced he just exists somewhere fully formed and all you’ve got to do is bend over to pick up dropped papers in front of the right business executive to get it, not spend 40 years of marriage living together, communicating, arguing, winning, losing, compromising, choosing battles and, pause for gasp, sometimes doing things for him too. So she just tries out a man, when he isn’t precisely what she has in mind she ghosts him and moves on to the next one.
Or, she’s willing to get on her back if if means a free meal at local fancy restaurant she can post to Instagram and maybe also even eat.
One thing i agree on with you is that at most of the women i had sex with were pretty bad at verbalizing what they want in bed, regardless of when they are asked about it, and that’s coming from an european where sex stuff is a lot less taboo to talk about than in the states. This is one thing that gets better with age, tho - older women seem to be much more vocal about their needs, so i would say experience is the key factor here. given how sexually repressive the US are especially towards women, it’s something that only social reform can fix, and currently the US are making steps backwards instead of forwards in that regard.
Body shaming to hurt someone during a breakup is not ok and a character flaw; breakups hurt enough as it is without stuff like that. I’m happy i haven’t experienced that yet; all my relationships so far have ended amicably, even if tears where involved on both sides - it just didn’t work out anymore. There would probably be no issue if i met any of my previous partners again.
I do not agree that all sex is transactional. I know it isn’t for me, i can be perfectly content with giving pleasure without receiving anything in return, and i believe most sex is cooperative, working together towards fullfillment of both parties. That includes a transaction, if you really want to be pedantic about it, but the transaction is pretty low-key.
It’s funny to think that far enough into the future this may be viewed as robophobic.